Andrea Sanche

2No, I liked it that way. That was good.

4I think I'm good.

6I say Sanche.

8think it's, you know, a debate amongst the family, and people say it all different sorts of ways, and there are some Sanchezes as well, so You know, that's my preferred— that's how my dad says it. So

10That's also one of the options. So

12It's like a multiple choice question and they're all right. All the answers are right.

14I was born in Montreal.

16I wasn't, but I grew up there, so it's even more surprising.

18We sort of made a western progression, and I— we got there when I started kindergarten. So I was— I just turned— I guess I had just turned 5. When we moved there. My mom was from Manitoba originally.

20it's just— no, there are other towns.

22No, it's a good joke, we like it. We're good-humored about how isolated we are really out there. So yeah, Winnipeg's the biggest city but there's another large city, Brandon, another one you know, various smaller ones throughout the province. But I grew up in Winnipeg, which I think now has around 750,000 people or so.

24It's, it's, I mean, it's, I don't know, I think if you've met anyone from Winnipeg, they're sort of very proud of being from there. I think pride— pride is the right word. It was like a big city but also small, you know. It's— there are two rivers that run through the city and they kind of, you know, divided into these four corner— quarters, if you will. And I was from one quarter and rarely made it to the other quarter, but, you know, I knew people from there. I— it was you know, it's a very interesting city, very diverse city, lots of very specific, you know, social political issues, honestly, that are different, you know, or don't arise here.

25You know, like a politically active city, you know, I played lots of sports, so there was, there was that, you know, everyone was into that sort of thing, lots of music, and it's cold, so you kind of have to do something inside, and that was playing music, listening to music, or playing sports. So it was sort of, you know, for most of the year, like we would usually have snow before Halloween.

27It is, it borders it. You wouldn't know it.

29Well, it's about— just for geography, it's about 2,400 kilometers, so it takes, you know, 2 days of driving basically straight. And what's interesting to me, when I moved here, people would talk about Northern Ontario and they meant, you know, Barrie. I was like, that's not Northern Ontario, you guys. And I mean, even Manitoba, Winnipeg's pretty far south because there's a whole province like, you know, above that, right? I happen to— my dad is from Ontario, so I— and I lived here briefly when I was little as well. So I had a good sense of Toronto and we would come every other year. We would come east to visit family and other things, and, you know, we'd travel around.

30So I had a pretty good sense of Toronto myself. In Winnipeg, I mean, it was very— I don't know, I, I'm curious to hear what other Winnipeggers have to say, but it— unless you kind of knew people from other places, like, it all seems so far away in a way, you know. The next largest city is actually Minneapolis in the U.S. Toronto's so much further, like that's a long way to Toronto. And thinking of places like New York where it was even, you know, further. Like I, you know, I traveled and then when I was 18 I went to Europe and that sort of thing, so I had a sense of how Winnipeg fit into the world.

31But it was like a place you saw on TV and you didn't really have a personal connection to it unless you'd been here. So a lot of people hadn't, and a lot of people never do. They never come out.

33I honestly don't even remember if it was what I wound up graduating with. I had like enough kind of credits for, I think, philosophy and either history or sociology, something in there. I don't even remember. So it was an arts degree, needless to say.

35Did he really? I did undergrad.

37is he

39Interesting. And interesting that he went to Manitoba from Alberta. That's pretty cool.

41I should check if we were there at the same time. I don't know, we might have been.

43There are so many Winnipeggers even in the Toronto Legal community, and I'm connected with a lot of them, and you know, I was in a restaurant once and this lawyer happened to be at the bar and he turned around, he said, did you— I hear someone say Winnipeg, you know, or I made some comment about some restaurant in Winnipeg or something, you know, a famous one. Yeah, it's one of those— I don't, I don't know what the equivalent would be. Maybe it's like all these people who are from New Jersey, or, you know, like there's like that common— we had— we went to the same restaurants, there was a— everyone knows how to like jump start a car battery, you know, like just common things that we, that we shared even generations apart.

44Like a lot of it was still there, you know, it's changing and it always changes, but certain things are the same. Someone once said to me too, they're something like a Winnipegger will always help you move and loan you their car. And I was like, that's probably true. I think that's right. I would do that 100%. So

46That is true, yes.

48Nothing really. I just sort of worked and saved up some money did a little bit of traveling, nothing extreme. You know, it was like, it's a U of T at the time. I was lucky because the tuition was still I don't actually know the current tuition at law schools, but I think it's significantly more than what I paid. So, but you know, I wanted to be responsible, so I saved up some money and spent that year doing that and then came out for the next year to Toronto. Yeah.

50What did I do wrong? I— for me, partly, I had a philosophy professor who was like, I would say influential. Like, he was— I— we were friendly, you know, we'd go for lunch together and stuff. And he was you know, always like wanted me to go on and take philosophy in graduate school because— especially because he felt there weren't enough women doing it, which is true. Strangely right now. Like a lot of disciplines, there aren't enough women at higher levels, and for some reason philosophy is one of them. And then he kind of like mentioned law school. And I mean, I think if you're maybe inclined to certain things, you know, notions of social justice or justice generally, or you know, writing, reading, maybe that philosophy, maybe that's sort of in the back of your mind.

51You know, I thought I would go on in school for sure. I wasn't entirely sure how or what. And then so I wrote the LSAT and applied and got in. So it sort of happened that way. You know, it seemed like the right thing and it aligned with a lot of things that I cared about and had been, you know, interested in for a long time. So was it where I thought I would be maybe when I was small, no, but that's sort of how things kind of unfolded.

53Yeah, it's strange, isn't it? Yeah, I don't know what it was. It almost felt like unfinished business maybe, or something like or I had a midlife, midlife, early life crisis. I was turning 30 maybe. I just really felt like it was something I wanted to do, that maybe there was, you know, I hadn't fully explored that. And then it dawned on me, you know, because I was originally— I was born in Montreal. I was like, oh, I could see, you know, maybe McGill would be an option. So I did that. It was— it's— it's— it was— I don't know how decisions work in people's minds, but it was something that was always kind of in the back of my mind to do.

54And I just thought, you know, I wasn't married, I don't have kids, now is kind of the time to do it. So I mean, it's— it's— you can also do it— I mean, I think we've all been trying to do everything from home, so I don't know how people continue in education while working and you know, having any kind of life outside of it. So kudos to anyone who's done that, but I had that luxury, so I thought I would, I thought I would do it. Coincided with the recession, so there you go. Maybe it was bad timing or good timing, I don't

56I did, yeah. I mean, it was sort of, I managed to get it done in a short period of time as a result. I didn't do it part-time, I did full-time.

58I do, Maureen Whelton.

60Oh, it's, it's, it's really shocking. You know, it's a humongous city, but then when I— when you come down to the connections between people and how people, you know, you don't realize it when you first, I think, start in law school. It seems like law firms are these institutions and they've always been there and will always be there. But then when you start to realize how people move around, how they're interconnected, how so much of what we do and how we know each other is kind of through word of mouth, if you will. You know, like mouth. I feel like I didn't say that right. You know, meeting people, making connections, putting people together when they need each other.

61You know, it's, it's, it's surprising really when it comes down to it. It's like a handful of people that you wind up seeing all the time and engaging with, but it's nice in that way. And I think The hard thing about COVID is that we don't have that community in the same way we did before. We're like, you know, seeing people at court and stuff like that, which was always nice.

63So we're all TC grads as well.

65My practice is commercial litigation with a fairly substantial component of employment law. Those have seemed to kind of evolve together over the years for me. So it ranges, as I'm sure you know, in a general commercial practice, from partnership disputes, shareholders' disputes, oppression, fraud claims, the whole gamut, you know. And I think with civil litigation especially, you know, you know the rules and you, you really use them in, in all sorts of different areas. So I don't have a specialization per se, but And a lot of investor liability as well, which is a big component too.

67Well, it'll be plaintiff or defendant but the same issues obviously on both sides. So there'll be a financial loss of some kind that the argument is connected to some sort of negligence or breach of obligations on the part of the advisor, let's say. So, and these are cases that are tort essentially, or breach of contract, right? So they're not regulatory, they're, they're It's litigation for damages, really. So someone might come and let's say on the plaintiff's side and you look at the file and you see maybe there were improper trades or there appears to be certain things in the account, like let's say churning, so selling and buying and selling, buying to make fees, which is maybe not appropriate.

68And it depends on if it's a discretionary account or not. A lot of these cases are discretionary account cases. So the advisor has discretion to make trades and may not be doing so in keeping with the risk tolerance or so on of the plaintiff. And that's certainly the plaintiff argument. That's when those cases come in. And I mean, they can be— I mean, they're very interesting. And, you know, there's— what's really interesting with them, I think, especially is that you learn a lot about the plaintiff in either side. You know, who they are and about their expectations. Obviously, a lot of these claims have fraudulent misrep or negligent misrep elements to them as well.

69So, I mean, they get into a lot of stuff. It'll be interesting to see. And I'm not even sure— I mean, there have been class actions started in the US because I know, for instance, I think it's Robinhood is one of the free trading accounts that shut down trading on the GameStop stock. And then there was immediately a class action started to say that their losses resulted, you know, but It's such an interesting concept too, because the burden or the barrier to getting into the market used to be, well, you need a manager and they're not going to take your account unless you have so much money. But now people can trade with— you can buy one stock, really, depending.

70And is that not the democratization of the stock market or not? You don't have to be part of a mutual fund or you don't have to pool your money with everybody else and then you can make these decisions. It's a really interesting, I think, social question that a lot of this activity is generating. And there are a couple others I know that the Reddit folks were targeting, like AMC and a couple of others. So, and there have been lots of interesting articles written on those things too, you know. Is it really, is it really the kind of activist you know, thing that, that Reddit members or people who got on board really think it is.

71Are you really causing hedge funds harm? And who's in the hedge fund? Often it's pension funds and things like that too. So who's really getting hurt at the end of the day? It'll be interesting. I'm sure at least in the US, especially where there's many, many millions of people, there will be litigation unfolding for sure.

73Yeah, I focus on professional liability. I think there are cases, obviously, and there are lawyers who do specific more securities, if you will, where the issuer or the prospectuses, there are problems with those documents and that sort of thing. The interesting thing about the intermediary stuff that's happening in the US with places like Robinhood is their decision to stop trading, people are going to say caused them harm or whatever, because they couldn't sell sell at a certain price. And I mean, that's like, there's so many ifs and whats, and I don't know how you do it as a class, which is I think how it started. But that's kind of a new thing, I think, right?

74Like, I think, you know, to go after the company that, you know, is issuing stock itself, or like that does an IPO or something is one thing. Maybe you bought stock on a false premise or something like that. But with these ones, it's a company in between that allows you to facilitate something like this. That somehow they have liability to you for corporate decision, I think really, that they made maybe to stop trading. So I mean, I've certainly never been part of one of those. And that's an interesting, maybe a newish development, if you will, because a lot of these sites are fairly new as far as I know.

76It really depends. Sometimes yes and sometimes no. I mean, I think it depends on the allegations and the policy, right?

78I don't know.

80We have— it's very active and we have a lot of initiatives. I mean, I think the major goal, if you will, is something that you're sort of highlighting, which is that it is such a lifelong career. People practice well into their 70s, that it becomes sort of this middle area, becomes this sort of time in your life where you don't really know where you fit in and trying to find other people who are in a similar situation, you know, facing similar challenges. Often it's challenges of parenting and, or even having older parents while also litigating. It's the idea of building a practice, maybe becoming a partner, or you're you know, on the way there, almost there, or you're on your own and, you know, you're trying to build and make connections.

81So we're trying, I think it's trying to address this, to your point, you know, 10 years for, in some careers is a long time and in law it's like a second, you know, and you're just sort of getting your, getting your, you're figuring out where you stand still at that point. So, you know, we talk a lot about those sorts of issues. We've got various things on the GO Podcast, a lot of CPD networking events, and it's also had to, you know, kind of evolve during COVID I'm not going to use the word that everyone uses, that I don't like. It starts with a P and ends in -ivet. So it's— but it's been great, and it is really nice, and it's national too.

82So, you know, trying to reach out and address issues with people who are like-minded and in the same sort of space in their life and in their career.

84Oh man, general advice?

86um,

88I mean, it's such a tough one. I think it's I don't know if, if specifically 10— I mean, you're, you're in this range, so, or getting, you know, you're just on the precipice, so maybe you can, you tell me. You know, it's a feeling, I think, for me at least, and I'm, I feel like I'm still in that zone. You know, it's a time of trying to figure out, you know, you sort of started to figure stuff out, get expertise, maybe you've got experience, maybe not even expertise, more like experience. And where do you want to go and what do you want to do? And for me, a big thing and a big, you know, what's what I'm looking for comfort during COVID especially when I've literally been in this room with my plant that's dying and that plant that's dying and whatever else and the cat that's probably behind me has been to connect with other lawyers.

89And it's not necessarily for business development reasons. I mean, there are, there are lots of ways you can do business development, but it's really been for that collegiality. We share a lot of the same frustrations, you know. A lot of people feel stuck and, and like, how do I move quote, up or out, you know, whatever they want to be, maybe. And I think sharing frankly and honestly with, with other people is a, is a really important lifeline, you know, where you're not— especially sometimes when you're in a firm and if they're, you know, if it's a big firm and there are 10 of people of your vintage, you feel like you can't really— there's so much competition inherently, you know, and you can't really, you don't want to show these vulnerabilities, but if you find other people that you really can do that with, whether it's a text message when you're frustrated about something, which I'm saying from experience, because that's what I do, you know, and they've experienced it too.

90I think that's an incredibly good resource. And, you know, 10 Plus is a great way to do that. And there's other ways to do it, you know, kind of organically too. And, you know, one of the— this is hard to do during COVID but I mean, joining these networking things might be worthwhile. And I mean, We met because you talked, we talked to each other at a CPD together, you know, and that's something people don't do, you know, they hide behind their computers and their email. And it's very easy to kind of keep your head down and do your work. But so much of this profession and life generally is, you know, keeping your head up and not looking necessarily to the sides, looking forward and, you know, finding people who help you, help motivate you to do that, you know, supporters, champions, those sorts of things.

91They might be more senior they might be more junior, they might be people that aren't even in law, but at least if within the community, you know, you find at a networking event, if there's someone who you think is like funny or said something, reach out to them, you know, like try to connect in that way, especially because if it, you know, it can be very isolating and you do focus so much on like, especially with law, you know, getting the work done and, and making sure, you know, like maybe you, you've met a hurdle, like becoming a partner, and that— and then you sort of say, well, then what, you know?

92And it's not even that— you still— every day you gotta, you know, you're working and building and looking you know, for new work, new people to meet, that sort of thing. So I think finding a connection, finding like-minded people is, is a really strong resource. And maybe people outside of your normal community, you know, not— maybe not people you went to school with, maybe not people you've worked with, but find people in a kind of broader broader search, if you will. That's my, that's my tip. I'm not sure if that helps anybody, but you know, that's, that's something I think about a lot and I try to, you know, I try to keep up.

93It's hard. I mean, there's a lot, a lot of pressure on, on all of us to maintain relationships, and, and it's hard doing it remotely, but we at least all know that we're all feeling, not seeing pressure, I think. I think, I think that's pretty common.

96Oh, that's so kind of you. And I, you know, it's one of those things too where it really doesn't, it doesn't quote take a lot, but it means so much to other people. And I've benefited from it as well. And, you know, I think it's just like sharing information and advice is part, really partly why we do this for a living, you know, and doing it for each other is, is really important. And that's so kind of you to say that. I appreciate it.

98My pleasure. Thanks.